Obama invokes race card

[{DvT}Sapient6]

Of course we could just stay there indefinitely and in that way our dead soldiers deaths would have nobly paved the way for more of our soldiers to die.

[[DvT]UY]

Originally Posted by ChemicalWarrior

Ending the war in Iraq is a bad thing? I'm sorry, but staying over there and doing nothing is not going to help us but rather keep getting more of our people dead.

I wouldn't call planting a seed of democracy in a region known for one war after another since time began "doing nothing"

In in order for our people to have not died in vein we must have had a purpose or be achieving a purpose, of which we're not currently doing nor ever did.

Disagree. They violated the resolutions. We are holding the regime accountable. Simple.

I'm also nearly 100% confident that the majority of our "people" over there would be more than happy to have it over. I know every single person I've talked to who have come back from a tour (two close family members and siblings of close friends) wants it over.

lol..are you kidding me? You mean combat soldiers would like to see it end?

Can somebody post a link to Captain Obvious for me?

There are exceptions, there always will be, but in order to have a justified war and therefore justified deaths you have to have a real reason. We have none.

Disagree. See above. What you are saying is that you don't agree with the reason(s). Just thought I'd clear that up.

As for taxing the wealthy, go for it. I have this funny feelings its not going to make them unwealthy.

What a great logic. Work harder so we can take more of what you make because somehow that is the fair thing to do. Jeesh.

Taxes are not fair, likely never will be. Life is not fair, and most certainly never will be. Oh well. Maybe they'll get joy out of knowing its going for a good potentially good and economic healthy purpose.

From one revelation to another I see...but you are correct in this one...taxing me unfairly because I have succeeded is about as unfair as it gets.

[Cheese]

i really don't see how people can say that rich people should be taxed at a higher percentage than others. it really is sick. people i know that just recently graduated are paying 40+% in taxes. how ridiculous is that?! almost 50% in money they worked for taken, and a lot of that is given to people that choose not to work hard and better their own lives. the only way i can see people being for that is if they're the one's benefiting from it.

i'm not that special, sure, i graduated hs and i'm in college now and i didn't pay much for it myself. but i could have if i had to, i could have owrked part-time jobs while in school to help pay off loans, i could have joined the military to help pay for school, etc etc. so because im 'priveliged' is not an excuse for money made to be taken and given to those who arn't. anyone can go to college if they put forth some effort and make the same kind of money i and people i know will be/are...and before anyone says 'oh you dont know because you wernt there'. i know people that came from trailer homes, who are first in their families to come to college, who worked part time, who have the military pay for them, who now make 50-60k+, so it definitely is possible

[{OF}Blong]

Originally Posted by Cheese

i really don't see how people can say that rich people should be taxed at a higher percentage than others. it really is sick. people i know that just recently graduated are paying 40+% in taxes. how ridiculous is that?! almost 50% in money they worked for taken, and a lot of that is given to people that choose not to work hard and better their own lives. the only way i can see people being for that is if they're the one's benefiting from it.

i'm not that special, sure, i graduated hs and i'm in college now and i didn't pay much for it myself. but i could have if i had to, i could have owrked part-time jobs while in school to help pay off loans, i could have joined the military to help pay for school, etc etc. so because im 'priveliged' is not an excuse for money made to be taken and given to those who arn't. anyone can go to college if they put forth some effort and make the same kind of money i and people i know will be/are...and before anyone says 'oh you dont know because you wernt there'. i know people that came from trailer homes, who are first in their families to come to college, who worked part time, who have the military pay for them, who now make 50-60k+, so it definitely is possible

yeah but even those making 70k can get just about 100% of their tax's back at the end of the year. on the other hand I know someone that made 275k his last year at work (he is retired now) and they took something like 80k in tax's from him. If he didnt have some of the deductions he had it would have been higher. He worked hard to get to where he is and I do somewhat agree with you cheese but there has to be a line drawn somewhere.

[Soul]

Originally Posted by {OF}Blong

yeah but even those making 70k can get just about 100% of their tax's back at the end of the year. on the other hand I know someone that made 275k his last year at work (he is retired now) and they took something like 80k in tax's from him. If he didnt have some of the deductions he had it would have been higher. He worked hard to get to where he is and I do somewhat agree with you cheese but there has to be a line drawn somewhere.

You state one if the biggest fundamental flaws with the tax code, and this is there are so many ways for people to tweak their taxes and take deductions. Most of which they probably shouldn't have or are not really eligible for and that in return causes others to have to pay more.

Flatten it out, set the same percentage for all and enforce the hell out of it.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Soul

You state one if the biggest fundamental flaws with the tax code, and this is there are so many ways for people to tweak their taxes and take deductions. Most of which they probably shouldn't have or are not really eligible for and that in return causes others to have to pay more.

Flatten it out, set the same percentage for all and enforce the hell out of it.

+1

and blong, i dont know what you're talking about. i dont get my taxes back...the people that get taxes back are the ones really making bank and can pay people to work the system for them. the middle class are the ones really getting raped by the system as it stands

[{OF}Blong]

Originally Posted by Cheese

+1

and blong, i dont know what you're talking about. i dont get my taxes back...the people that get taxes back are the ones really making bank and can pay people to work the system for them. the middle class are the ones really getting raped by the system as it stands

no the people that get tax's back are ones with 4 kids . If I didnt have 4 kids I wouldnt get about 100% back but rather about 1/2 back.

I am not quite understanding michigans tax rate that either passed or hasnt passed yet (I cant remember which) but they want to drop the state income tax and just have EVERYONE pay tax's through things like increasing the tax you pay when you buy stuff at the store like video games. Thats fine with me I dont get hardly anything back from state tax's at the end of the year. Even with 4 kids I dont get hardly anything back. Matter of fact if I hadnt paid in an extra $20/week to state I would of ended up owing.

[{DvT}Sapient6]

Originally Posted by {OF}Blong

no the people that get tax's back are ones with 4 kids . If I didnt have 4 kids I wouldnt get about 100% back but rather about 1/2 back.

I do love my new little tax exemption. She's so cute!

[ChemicalWarrior]

Originally Posted by [DvT]UY

I wouldn't call planting a seed of democracy in a region known for one war after another since time began "doing nothing"

Planting a seed of democracy? Is that in the conservative handbook they hand out? Is Israel stared for "Don't mention this place"? I'm sorry, but in order for change (forceful change, nonetheless) to occur the people there as a whole must have a starving need for it. You can't conquer an area for "peace" in these areas. If they want an example they simply have to open up a map. You simply want to place an example of "Oh, I see, if the US of A comes and forces to be a certain way then we'll all be real happy!" This progress for democracy hasn't even shown itself yet and won't any time soon either.

There are also a number of places around the world that could have been "fixed" also, and much cheaper. Maybe we should go around forcing everyone to embrace our flawed ideas (We'll send lots of missionaries also). It'll be great. It really will.

Disagree. They violated the resolutions. We are holding the regime accountable. Simple.

Ahh yes, our amazing honest and dear reasons for going there. You'd think those would have been announced, you'd think we'd all be still talking about those, you'd think, you'd think. It's always fun to rewrite history. Ever notice how even the administrations term for this war keeps changing? Why it keeps expanding? Why the target seems to change with the seasons? Where were you when right after invasion the shell of these arguments initially made started to crumble? How the CIA, DIA, and other intelligence organizations backed away from the link to weapons of mass destruction, harboring terrorism, links to Al Qaeda, do you recall those? How only AFTER that did the administration start to push forward human rights issues.

lol..are you kidding me? You mean combat soldiers would like to see it end? Can somebody post a link to Captain Obvious for me?

As a combat soldier you would hope the reasons you go into combat are real and good. That is what you signed up for, not wars with has reasons and revisionist history in mind.

Disagree. See above. What you are saying is that you don't agree with the reason(s). Just thought I'd clear that up.

You have to justify your reasons. Something that was never fully done in the lead up for the invasion. You fall into the trap that most people do when looking at history, only years after are the full facts known but you can't make decisions based on that. There was never a clear plan for invasion to begin with. When previous reasons were being harshly criticized and often times outright dismissed by important organizations you can't simply pull more reasons out of your hat and go "oh, how about these?"

What a great logic. Work harder so we can take more of what you make because somehow that is the fair thing to do. Jeesh.

You're not rich if you have to work hard. Nor did I call it fair, so I would kindly ask you to read what I say next time. In fact I stated the complete opposite. Also, the majority of the tax cuts Bush has implemented benefit the wealthy, I certainly have no issue with simply repealing those. Which is likely all Obama would need to do.

From one revelation to another I see...but you are correct in this one...taxing me unfairly because I have succeeded is about as unfair as it gets.

In general I don't agree with an income tax at all. To be honest it's likely the worst form there is. Instead I think the purchase tax should be increased on all non-essential purchases and a complete removal of income tax or at least a greatly reduced flat tax. I really don't see that happening anytime soon though, so I don't bullshit myself.

[[DvT]UY]

Originally Posted by ChemicalWarrior

Planting a seed of democracy? Is that in the conservative handbook they hand out? Is Israel stared for "Don't mention this place"? I'm sorry, but in order for change (forceful change, nonetheless) to occur the people there as a whole must have a starving need for it. You can't conquer an area for "peace" in these areas. If they want an example they simply have to open up a map. You simply want to place an example of "Oh, I see, if the US of A comes and forces to be a certain way then we'll all be real happy!" This progress for democracy hasn't even shown itself yet and won't any time soon either.

blah, blah...

You and the rest of the world won't get a clue to any progress or not of what has occure din Iraq for some years yet to come. You are just another example of the instant gratification generation.

There are also a number of places around the world that could have been "fixed" also, and much cheaper. Maybe we should go around forcing everyone to embrace our flawed ideas (We'll send lots of missionaries also). It'll be great. It really will.

lol! We didn't force Saddam to be a major asshole.

Ahh yes, our amazing honest and dear reasons for going there. You'd think those would have been announced, you'd think we'd all be still talking about those, you'd think, you'd think. It's always fun to rewrite history. Ever notice how even the administrations term for this war keeps changing? Why it keeps expanding? Why the target seems to change with the seasons? Where were you when right after invasion the shell of these arguments initially made started to crumble? How the CIA, DIA, and other intelligence organizations backed away from the link to weapons of mass destruction, harboring terrorism, links to Al Qaeda, do you recall those? How only AFTER that did the administration start to push forward human rights issues.

You so easily forget, the whole world was in on it including the democrats. would you life me to post the audio/video of all the demos who were in favor of going into Iraq convinced they had WMD? Just say the word.

As a combat soldier you would hope the reasons you go into combat are real and good. That is what you signed up for, not wars with has reasons and revisionist history in mind.

What would you know about being a combat soldier? Answer = nothing.

You have to justify your reasons. Something that was never fully done in the lead up for the invasion. You fall into the trap that most people do when looking at history, only years after are the full facts known but you can't make decisions based on that. There was never a clear plan for invasion to begin with. When previous reasons were being harshly criticized and often times outright dismissed by important organizations you can't simply pull more reasons out of your hat and go "oh, how about these?"

Justifying taking out Saddam is easy...he broke every rule in the book unless of course you are a stupid liberal who plays by no rules.

You're not rich if you have to work hard. Nor did I call it fair, so I would kindly ask you to read what I say next time. In fact I stated the complete opposite. Also, the majority of the tax cuts Bush has implemented benefit the wealthy, I certainly have no issue with simply repealing those. Which is likely all Obama would need to do.

Most of the rich have worked very hard to get where they are at. I suppose I should overlook future incoherent babblings from you.

In general I don't agree with an income tax at all. To be honest it's likely the worst form there is. Instead I think the purchase tax should be increased on all non-essential purchases and a complete removal of income tax or at least a greatly reduced flat tax. I really don't see that happening anytime soon though, so I don't bullshit myself.

On this we find a microscopic piece of common ground but make no mistake, you bullshit yourself based upon what yuou have posted here.