Video Card Problems Guide

[{OF}Blong]

wow thats one sweet looking case. me likes.

[dudio]

Chem: Curious if you should the updating/reinstalling of DirectX
to the list of possible video fixes.

[{OF}DMW]

Originally Posted by {DvT}JonahHex

I have owned 3 nVidia cards, a Ti4400, a 5950Ultra, and my current 2x (SLI) 8800GTX cards. I never had any heat issues w/ the Ti4400, but the 5950Ultra card would crap out at (or slightly below) 75C; the 8800GTXs between 78 and 85C.

The 5950 heat problem occurred when the fins of the heatsink got so clogged w/ dust that you couldn't get thru w/ a machete - keeping it clean eliminated any concern about heat ... duh ...

The 8800s, OTOH, run hot. Their huge size - double slots for each one and a hair under 11" long don't help at all w/ airflow in a midtower case...even w/ 6x80mm fans in the case (2 intake on the front, 2 exhast on the back, 1 intake on the side and 1 exhaust on the top). They idle at 60-63C.

If you are using/considering a top-end vid card, overheating is a problem that people are consistantly encountering. Be very aware of this issue, especially with 8800GTS and 8800GTX cards. The "designed to work up to 120C" mentioned above is seriously overstated. I've been spending a fair amount of time in the EVGA (my vid card manufacturer) forums...the temp limitations I mentioned are pretty standard in real life.

In order to try to give myself some more temperature headroom, my new case will be arriving tomorrow:




Those are 250mm (9.8") fans on the side. It also has a 120mm intake fan on the front and a 120 exhaust fan on the back, as well as vents on the top and the other side. Since I'm not going to spend another $300 or so to water cool the vid cards, this will have to suffice.

I like also Jonah... where and how much? I would like to look at that a little more.

[{DvT}JonahHex]

DMW, my post has a link to the Newegg.com page where they sell it for $120 + $20 shipping (to me in Reno, NV, anyway)... the link is http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811103011 ("my new case" in my post). There are also about 40 user comments/reviews available from that page.

The 4 down-sides of the case are: 1) the 2 120mm fans I mentioned are not included altho no mod is needed to add them - I'll buy and add them after the case gets here; 2) the case is big; 3) it is heavy: 31 lbs shipping weight - it is steel construction, not aluminum - most of the user reviewers mention that this "isn't a case you just throw into the car to take to weekly LAN parties" and "if you are a skinny geek like me, expect to get a workout whenever you move it around" hehe; 4) those damned blue lights - my current case is Deviant Green with Green fan lights:



The 8800GTXs are the big black boxes on the bottom left with the power cables going in on the ends on the right. There is less than a 1/4" (more like an 1/8") clearance between the end of the cards and the HDD cage...after they are installed...think about the bracket and video cable sockets that stick out of the back of the case while trying to get them in there. You can get a pretty good idea from the pic that the side fan blows onto the top vid card, but not the bottom one.

I almost went for the Antec 900 case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129021 but the XClio got better reviews at Newegg AND I thoroughly inspected the Antec 900 at our local CompUSA store...my 8800GTX cards wouldn't fit any better in the 900 than they do in my current case (ie restricting air flow) and the 900's "big fan" (1 x 200mm) is on the top rather than side, where the vid cards are. Thus, I decided on this one. The big concern I have now, before getting it, is whether the vid card power cables from my BFG 1000W PSU will reach all the way to the bottom vid card...they barely do in my current case, as you can see.

[{OF}DMW]

Yes, sorry. U did have the link... excuse my moment of selective paying attention.

I know I am gonna start crap about this cuz we have had this discussion before on this board. I have always been a firm believer that aluminum displaces heat faster and better than steel. That's why I don't use or like steel cases as well as the weight issue. That's a nice looking case. I like it alot. I just wish it was in aluminum. Maybe my attitude will have to change though.

[{DvT}JonahHex]

Well hell...

Since I posted a pic of my system the specs are:

CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E6600, 2.4GHz
Mobo: EVGA 680i SLI
Video: 2x EVGA GeForce 8800GTX KO (factory O/C)
Monitor: Samsung 226BW, 22" widescreen flatpanel, 2ms, 3000:1 contrast (the pic was taken before I got the Samsung)
RAM: 2x1GB OCZ Platinum PC6400, 800MHz
PSU: BFG 1000W
Sound: Soundblaster Audigy
HDD: 2x Sata/300; Western Digital 250GB, Maxtor 320GB
DVD-RW: MadDog 16x Single Layer, 8x Dual Layer
CD-ROM: Creative 52x
Floppy: 3.5" 1.44MB
K/B: Logitech Gaming G15
Mouse: Logitech Gaming G7, wireless
UPS: APC BX1500LCD, 1500 VA
Speakers: Klipsch 5.1 Ultra
Coffee Cup: Clan Deviants logo'd
Internet: AT&T DSL, 3000MB/s d/l
O/S: Windoze XP Home

Best 3DMark06 score: 15,653 (when CPU O/C'd to 3.53GHz and system is barely stable enough to boot into Windoze and run 3DMark06. Hopefully the new case will cool everything enough to be able to crack the 16,000 barrier)

[{DvT}JonahHex]

Originally Posted by {OF}DMW

Yes, sorry. U did have the link... excuse my moment of selective paying attention.

I know I am gonna start crap about this cuz we have had this discussion before on this board. I have always been a firm believer that aluminum displaces heat faster and better than steel. That's why I don't use or like steel cases as well as the weight issue. That's a nice looking case. I like it alot. I just wish it was in aluminum. Maybe my attitude will have to change though.

You have that firm belief about aluminum vs steel because the physical properties of the metals behave exactly as your belief-system thinks they do. Any competent physicist can prove you to be correct in the lab. I spent about 2 weeks looking at cases and reading reviews. The steel bothered me both on the weight and heat dissipation issues. However, when all factors were considered, fitting the vid cards in the case, fans, fan placement, construction quality, etc, etc, etc, the XClio Windtunnel seemed to be the least of the evils for my needs and purposes. The only way I was going to get the case I actually wanted was to have it custom built. However, even that wouldn't really work because I am not a heat dissipation engineer...among other things necessary to build the perfect case.

I am, however, a chemist (BA, University of Nevada, Reno; class of 1973) and I guarantee you that aluminum transfers heat more efficiently than steel, by about a factor of 3, if I remember correctly. Of course, if we genuinely want efficient heat transfer, then we need solid silver, .999 fine, and a French maid to polish it daily, inside and out, when we aren't polishing the French maid daily, inside and out.

[Capt. Insane]

how do temperatures lower than 120 affect the card?

[{DvT}JonahHex]

When my GeForce 5950Ultra overheated, I was playing UT2K4 and all of a sudden the pictures of the map began "tearing." It looked like they were on a sheet of paper that had been torn down the middle and slightly folded...pretty weird and hard to explain unless you've seen it...this was happening with the 3D movement that I normally see while playing 2K4 except for the visual appearance of a torn page.

When the 8800GTXs over heat the system either freezes up, but in UT2K4 the sound continues, or the system just reboots itself. As nearly as I can tell the frozen system occurs when the vid cards overheat; the spontaneous reboot, when the CPU overheats (only happens when I have it seriously overclocked).

The 8800GTXs freeze up at temps well below 120C...high 70s to mid 80s.

[ChemicalWarrior]

I’m probably going to delete the guides unless there are serious reasons given to keep them up. The fact is that the same solutions do not always work. A resources page might be created for programs to check out, etc. Otherwise I personally don’t want to upgrade something with relevant information constantly. If a new page is created it will be a sticky and locked.

120C is a typical temperature set as to when a video card will start to throttle itself in order to lower temperatures. While not all cards are the exact same, 120C is a general estimate is actually probably highly likely. One person’s person experience really doesn’t mean much in statistical terms. For example, I’ve had personal experience with my own (and countless others) with temperatures in excess of 90C, I had a 6800 that ran at 85C load normally without any issues for over a year and a half.

If 120C was simply some magical value picked out of the air then video card manufacturers would have defect ratios in the 20%+ greater range instead of the much more typical 1%~2% range. These values are picked because they make sense, they are typical limits and are designed to protect the video card, and if a card was consistently having issues at temperatures nearly 40C lower then they’d lower it.

Overheating itself is really overstated, or rather the means needed to prevent over heating area. Twin 250mm fans are not needed. Look at example of a large number of high quality Lian Li, Antec, Silverstone, etc cases. No 250mm in site, instead sensible placement of 120mm fans and not many. My Antec P180B contains currently 3 120mm case fans at their lower setting, more than enough air for a 8800GTX, look at forums were a large number are running the same combination.

BTW, think about your cases airflow design. Positive pressure. You must exhaust the same amount of air as your bring in, or else you create nothing but dead spots, packets of hot air in your case. Again, this is why intelligent designs can get away with two 120mm case fans in the entire case and be plenty for very high end cases.

On a side note, I seriously hope you are not overclocking your processor with the stock Intel heatsink. Talk about heat issues, no amount of indirect cooling is going to stop you from ruining that processor far faster than it should…